Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

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Ansicht erweitern Die letzten Beiträge des Themas: Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

Re: Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

von clp560 » 12. Mär 2015, 17:18

Here are the two comparison files, both Chorus/Vib C3 position. Not a great recording - just the iPad on top of the Leslie but it's a demo of the vib so works fine. Bit of a clunky upload procedure as the forum doesn't seem to allow sound file uploads but hopefully it works. The last 5 or 6 notes are the VIB V3 position. Note the lack of generator noise with the HX3 - maybe that should be added in :-)

Hammond B3 (888 + perc)

http://cl.ly/332Y072g391R

HX3 (888 + perc)

http://cl.ly/0v3a3S0s2a1I

I turned the Vib3 Freq Mod back to 180 otherwise the settings are as in the earlier post.

There's been some discussion about the XK-3 Expression range with the HX3 but I'm having no issue with that. The dynamic range of a B3 isn't quite as wide as one might expect but I was using a A105 at a studio today and that was the same, so I think the available XK-3/HX3 range is more or less correctly modelled - any discrepancies might easily be down to other factors like XK-3 internal settings/amplifiers etc..

Paul

Re: Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

von clp560 » 10. Mär 2015, 18:18

Hi Wolfgang,

I made a quick comparison sound file of the B3 and HX3 but I can't upload the files in wav, m4a or aif format. Anyone here know what format, if any, is allowed on this forum?

Dennis,

there is a sound output configuration AMP +B/Pedal which sends the pedal sound through the same channel as the manuals while still sending the Pedals out of the other jack to a different amplifier. The 145 amplifier has an unbalanced input but the direct out (G terminal) of a Hammond is quite a high level. It may be, though, that the original 145 connecting kit attenuated this so I'm not sure if Line level from the HX3 is enough or not. This is probably a question for the Hammond forum over on Yahoo. Quite a number of guitarists have used Leslies in the past so a jack input certainly works, but they may use a preamp, of course.

Paul

Re: Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

von Dnsmo » 9. Mär 2015, 19:05

Yesterday during a concert I tried both output methods from the HX3. (1) Into the XK-3 as you described (trying different settings in the XK-3 EQ etc. which I'd already set up at home), and (2) directly to my Leslie from the HX3 (amp + B/pedal). There is no doubt that the direct connection is better - the XK-3 definitely 'colours' the sound when connecting via the Return/Ext (with a Jack plug the 'Send' output to kill the XK-3 sound). This is the method I will use from now on, though it is possible that others may find the first method ok depending on the amp or Leslie used.
Thank you for the report, Paul! Once I get the HX3, it may be simply be, as you suggest, a matter of trial and error using the effect loop to see if I can live with method #1.

For the more direction connection, method #2, could you clarify what you mean by "amp + B/pedal"?

Would the HX3 ROTARY AMP output be sufficient to drive the amp in my 145 if I had a 1/4" direct input? (I'm assuming it would not.)

Dennis

Re: Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

von clp560 » 9. Mär 2015, 15:48

Hi Wolfgang,

I use almost always 'Chorus C3' rather than any of the 'Vib' settings, so for me the Vib 3 Freq Mod of 200 works well to bring it very close to my original Hammond Chorus sound. It's true, though, that for 'Vib 3' only the setting of 200 is probably too strong. Still, it's all easily enough selected on the HX3 so we can both be happy! If I find some time to record both organs I'll post the results on here. I'm also using Firmware 3.721. All my other settings I'm really happy with and can now probably hide the HX3 inside the XK-3 lower manual and not need to touch it much anymore!

Paul

Re: Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

von moser » 8. Mär 2015, 20:58

Hi Paul,

thanks for your answer.

I tried your configutration with vib3 and it doen´t sounds well in the to upper octaves. But may be it`s a question of the firmeware. The mine is 3.721, yours?

But what is nice is

Vib3
LC Age 38
Freq Mod 135

Wolfgang

Re: Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

von clp560 » 8. Mär 2015, 18:37

Hi Wolfgang,

My vib settings are

Vib 1
LC Age 46
Freq Mod 74

Vib 2
LC Age 80
Freq Mod 110

Vib3
LC Age 38
Freq Mod 200

Chorus Dry Mix 200
Chorus Vib Mix 120

Vib 3 is the important setting, plus the Chorus/dry and Chorus/vib settings. I find these very close to my B3. Hammond chorus did vary, especially in the later models (late 1960s/1970s) but my HX3 settings work well.

Yesterday during a concert I tried both output methods from the HX3. (1) Into the XK-3 as you described (trying different settings in the XK-3 EQ etc. which I'd already set up at home), and (2) directly to my Leslie from the HX3 (amp + B/pedal). There is no doubt that the direct connection is better - the XK-3 definitely 'colours' the sound when connecting via the Return/Ext (with a Jack plug the 'Send' output to kill the XK-3 sound). This is the method I will use from now on, though it is possible that others may find the first method ok depending on the amp or Leslie used. My Leslie amp has a jack input fitted (it's a modified old Leslie H1 tube amp and gives around 100 watts) so this is easily connected to the HX3. I think this is easy to do on a 145 anyway, but if you have a preamp there is no problem. I use an 1176 connector kit - it's like the 1147 but is designed for a 760 Leslie. This is only because I'm using the motors and power supply/speed controller from a Leslie 760, otherwise all of these kits do a great job of letting the XK-3 control the Leslie via its normal controls.

Anyway, give these settings a try and tell me what you think.

Paul

Re: Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

von moser » 8. Mär 2015, 16:12

Hi Paul,

I read your conversion, because I use the HX3 Expander Firmware 3.721 with a Hammond XK3-c(2 Manuals)System. I like the Sound of the HX3 very much, but I have a Little problem with the Sound of the Chorus, especially with Chorus 3 in the upper two octaves. It`s crying in a bit strange matter, so I hope you are satisfied with your paramters, as you can compare with your B3.
Would my I ask you t you be so kind and tell me your parameters for Chorus/vibr 1, 2 and 3 and the Chorus dry Mix , Chorus vib Mix

I use following Parameters:

Vib 1
LC Age 46
Freq Mod 75

Vib 2
LC Age 80
Freq Mod 110

Vib3
LC Age 120
Freq Mod 160

Chorus Dry Mix 170
Chorus Vib Mix 100

would be very nice.

I used the HX3 for a short while with the return and send in the XK3c, Output in HX3 with amp/Pedal.

But I never heard teh the same Sound in comparison with a direct out from HX3 to my Leslie ( I use a 3300). All the parameters in the XK3c I tryed (T,B,M,t) . My experience: some times more or less a bit better or not. But the real clear Sound is only what I wrote above. I intend in buying a 145 vintage Leslie with a extern preamp, so there a 2 line-in-connectors. I hope this will be perfect.

Hope to hear from you

Wolfgang

Re: Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

von Dnsmo » 6. Mär 2015, 01:53

Paul,

I'm not familiar with the 1176 kit. How does it differ from an 1147? If you're not using pins 1 and 4 in the XK-3, how are you getting the audio signal from the HX3 to the 11-pin cable going to the 1176?

Re: Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

von clp560 » 5. Mär 2015, 13:34

I tried the input on the XK-3 mixer board but as reported on the XK-3 Forum the 300mv output from the HX3 is way too high for this to be of use. I then wired an input directly to the XK-3 11-pin socket in the XK-3 (pins 1 and 4). I got an output at the Leslie but it was too quiet and the dynamic range was affected by this. So, for me the best approach is the Return/Ext input and set the XK-3 EQ (and Reverb) accordingly. Incidentally (and strangely, as the jack inserted into the 'Send' socket is supposed to bypass the Overdrive and audio output), the Overdrive on the XK-3 also affects the sound incoming from from Return/Ext. Primarily it's the 'Drive' setting that boosts the bottom end so I set mine to 29. The overall output from the HX3 is also affected by the 'Tube Amp' control (which controls the Amp122 setting in the HX3), and the main volume control on the XK-3. The Expression pedal settings on the XK-3 also affect the incoming signal (minimum, LF/HF cut etc.) so play around with these as well!

Anyway, with some experimenting I have the HX3 signal going to the Leslie, via the 11-pin cable to my 1176 adapter, and functioning fine. If I'm honest the sound when connecting directly from the HX3 to the jack input on the Leslie amp is preferable, but this is bound to vary according to the Leslie or amp you use. I'm playing tomorrow so I'll try both ways on the gig and see whether there is really much difference in a 'live band' situation as opposed to in my music room.

Paul

Re: Questions about HX3 Expander with XK-system

von Dnsmo » 4. Mär 2015, 02:10

That's super, Paul. Very useful info for a prospective HX3 owner/user!

I posted to the XK Yahoo group to see if any member knows of a menu work around on the XK3 to get EQ out of the effects loop. It seems really odd that Ham-Suz didn't make a provision for this.

BTW, I was wrong about the Frank Montis YT video of the HX3 (faulty memory). He has an XK3c and is NOT using the effects loop at all. Instead, he's going from the ROTARY AMP out on the HX3 module directly into his 3300.

I guess I could provision my 145 with a quarter-inch input, but it would certainly be a lot easier to use the XK3's EXT IN to route the module's audio to the Leslie.

Dennis

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