Keyboardpartner-Forum

m_g says exact that which is fact ( in fat letters )

m_g hat geschrieben: Nord has different midi implementation variing from model to model (stage vs electro etc.)
Its not a Problem of the HX3.
Same with the Hammonds......

THX m_g

... in other words .......
It is not the task of the inventor of HX3 to addapt/modify this module to any keyboard which any user will use in combination with HX 3.
Extremly when companies like Hammond or Nord use different MIDI CC Sets in their products series and in case of Hammond badly documented.
The HX3 supports via REMOTE Tool to addapt wanted Custom CC Set .
If there is any button on keyboard with the correct CC Set function but wrong "button name", it´s easier to rename the button on keyboard or still remember this by keeping in brain

happyfreddy: Sorry to say but I find your responses to my comments and questions quite aggressive and rude.

I am trying to connect my equipment to my HX3 expander and hoped to get some help from this forum. From you I understand that it is completely stupid to expect that a Nord, Hammond or other clone should be considered as serious candidate as they use nonacceptable midi-implementations. If that is the message from the moderator of this forum it does not invite new members to rise questions here.

To m_g: Thanks for your hints and references to documentation. I have read it, and I have tried my Nord C2 with the midi custom set and run into the problems that I foresaw:
1. Lower manual drawbars on Nord C2 (which is transmitted on midi ch 2) Controls HX3 upper manual drawbars and not lower manual. So both sets of drawbars (LED-buttons) on my C2 Controls the upper manual and none the lower.
2, The same happens for activating V/C on upper/lower. The C2 sends the same CC on two different midichannels meaning that both buttons activate V/C on upper manual, none activate the lower.

Am I overseeing something essential With the remote application that opens for configuring the custom CC set to react selectively on the same midi CC based upon differentiating between midichannels?

Finally: I am very happy with the HX3 sound, it is the best clone I have heard, I have no other intentions than trying to implement it to my controllers.

Hi Valpurgis,

ok, there seems something wrong. I can barely remember that HX-User "Simon98"
tried his C2 succesfully with the Expander.
I will try to find his post....

The "CC-Theme" is a bit complicated...
;-)

ok, maybe I got it:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=136&hilit=Nord+C2

Is it possible to set Midi-Send-Channel for the Lower Manual on the C2 ???

@valpurgis

My answers aren´t any agressive or rude

The fact is the Midi Implementation of Nord C2, something goes wrong here.........

When You wrote:

"The C2 sends the same CC on two different midichannels meaning that both buttons activate V/C on upper manual, none activate the lower. "
" Lower manual drawbars on Nord C2 (which is transmitted on midi ch 2) Controls HX3 upper manual drawbars and not lower manual"

There must be a problem in Nord C2 with intern MIDI handling.......specially what happens on Midi Channels 1 and 2
When Nord C2 sends ONE CCset on TWO channels how will HX3 detect what is meaned ???
Fact is the last MIDI CC set sended overwrites here the first because same information on two channels

It is nothing wrong with the Nord C2 midi implementation. Just checked the spec for the Numa organ which behaves quite similar to the C2. An example:
The Numa sends the same CC for the upper, lower and pedal respectively CC 12 on midi channel 1,2 and 3 to control the 16' (first drawbar) for upper, lower and pedals. Why should this be a fault and result in any overwriting? The VB3 software from Gsi has no problem to identify the difference in a CC coming on different midi channels and works easily with the C2.

There are only 127 midi CC's per midichannel, if you use 3 midi channels there will be 381 options. Another reason why Nord and others use several midichannels for CC could be that it is more structurated to know that drawbar 16' always is CC12 as in the Numa example.

My point: To sell a midi sound module (HX3 Expander) you will sell more units if it is easy to adapt the midi implementation of the relevant controller. Take a look at the VB3 software and it's midi learning function and you will see what I mean. This is not critic of the HX3 but a hint to make it more flexible.

hi
read this
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=136&hilit=Nord+C2

If the Nord Midi Implementation is correct how will a VB3 Software will detect an sended CC Set from upper manual when upper and lower manual send
on both channels exact the same MIDI channel. The sreenshot from "Simon98" shows this as You see : same controller bytes , upper 3 commands from upper manual and lower 3 commands in pic from lower manual : NO DIFFERENCE !!!

If You got exact same controller bytes either from upper or lower manual.

Upper sends:
B0 03 00
B0 03 40
B0 03 7F

Lower sends:
B0 03 00
B0 03 40
B0 03 7F

B0 means CHANNEL 1

If You want to mean CHANNEL 2 it must be B1 :!:


how will any software - even the VB3 Software - detect what´s the meaning ?

Sorry I can´t follow that

Freddy,

I am not sure cause I do not have a C2. But I think Simon's problem was that he has set
the Lower Manual to Midi Channel 1 on the C2.
That's what I asked valpurgis for, if he had set the correct Channel on the C2....

I use the Expander with a 2 manual masterkeyboard sending on Channel 1, 2 and 3
and the HX can handle all Midi CC seperatly, but with the NI4 CC-set...

...or we have a "little bug" in the Nord CC-set (like in the XK-CC set?) ???

We'll see, I am sure Carsten will have a look when he is back....

@m_g
I also don´t have any keyboard in use with HX3
All what I do is intergrate HX3 in new buildt organ case using the offered boards to complete.
My expander is in use with MIDI keys or Computer without any CC Set to operate.

The HX 3 excepts MIDI information on Chanel 1 for upper , Channel 2 for lower and Channel 3 for pedal.
Each ´Channel / Key can be changed in Sound by several presets, that means the changing information must happen
on specific channel.
Only on panel 16 board You have 4 " General Presets " these 4 Presets contain information for upper , lower and pedal and their routing ie for upper the buttons percussion etc

If the HX 3 is driven by "only MIDI" the changing information for any preset must appear on the specific channel for this key manual

If You change the sending channel of the MIDI Keyboard You also change on HX 3 the corresponding drawbarset for this key manual.
But !!!!! You must know if You play on a MIDI keyboard ( driving the HX 3 ) and change the sending channel for this keyboard to Channel 3 the HX 3 only will accept the lower 2 octave keys and NOT the rest of this manual. You also have only the two drawbars 16 and 8 foot and sustain - nothing more.
You therefore can´t separte any drawbarset to another physically key manual or Midi Channel
Drawbars Upper are coupled to upper manual. How many Drawbarsets Upper You have isn´t relevant same as for Lower Manual.
The pedal drawbars appear in HX3 ( and same in real Hammond ) only one time - not more

I also believe that there is a little "bug" in Nord Keyboard, for diffenrent operations on upper and lower manual normally need also separate Midi Channels and not the same as Simon98 hase posted

B0 55 7F C/V on upper
B0 55 00 C/V off upper
B1 55 7F C/V on lower
B1 55 00 C/V off lower
B0 10 10 DB 16' upper move to step 1
B0 10 00 DB 16' upper move back to step 0
B1 10 10 DB 16' lower move to step 1
B1 10 00 DB 16' lower move back to step 0

Monitored by Midi-Ox. Still in doubt happyfreddy?