Fatar keybeds - how good?

[clp560]

I'm currently using my Hammond XK-3 as the keyboard controller for my HX3. I'm sure all organists are looking for the best keyboard 'feel' so has anyone here on the forum been able to compare the Fatar organ keybeds with those on the XK-3? Are they closer to a 'real' Hammond or is there not enough difference to be worth changing? Any thoughts out there?

Paul

[bovist]

Hello Paul,

Fatar and Hammond keybeds are not compatible, so there might be some work to replace them.

Also, Fatar TP/8O does have somewhat strong springs, so key pressure to trigger a note is around 80 grams, while original Hammonds will trigger between 50 and 60 grams. Because of that Wolfgang Uhl swaps all the springs in his "smooth" series. It should be sufficient to elongate the Fatar springs a littlle to have a similar effect. This is somewhat delicate, so changing springs yields predictable results.

Anyway, I think the look & feel of the Fatar thermoplast keys is never the same as the older duroplast. I am curious what material Hammond used in old days.

[happyfreddy]

hi
I´m using FATAR Keys since 2011 in my first HX2 organ.
From start they work little harder than other keys ............
but as longer as in use they become more and more smoother.
I can compare this with my 3rd HX3 model the "HX3 in B3 look" which are meanwhile even stronger than the HX2 but
going on way to get smooth.
That means that the springs change their "feeling".
To elongate the Fatar springs may be one way but what will happen when those elongated springs become more smoother
too in future ?

[clp560]

Using 2c coins (3gm) I found it takes 75 gms to trigger the notes on the XK3 keyboard. The trigger is at 3mm depth and the total key travel is 12mm. My B3 takes 60 gms, but the total travel is also less at 10mm.

I think I'll have a look at the construction of the keyboards in the XK3 - maybe it's possible to lose 2mm from the key travel and think about lowering the spring resistance somehow. As it's already less than the Fatar it might be worth trying to modify the XK3. The plastic quality is rather good, as is the colour.

Paul

[m_g]

Paul,

I played a XK3/XK3c System from 2004 or 2005 to 2013 before I switched to the SK2 and than Uhl/HX3...

The XK keyboard is (IMHO) the better keyboard. It feels more solid, no "strange noises" and a more even
feeling overall. I hadn't the feel that it is as stiff as the Fatar in the SK and the Standard TP80 in the
Uhl X3.
What's obivious is the difference between the black and the white keys and I also feel some
small difference between the upper and lower manual on my X3-2.... that's a litte sign on the
"italian" Fatar tolerances!
;-)

I wouldn't change the XK keyboard to Fatar...

Hope that helps
Markus

P.S. I will get my X3-2 fitted with the "smooth" keyboards soon.... should be an improvement.
;-)

[clp560]

Thanks Markus,

I also have the feeling that the XK3 keyboard is pretty good as standard, though I'll be interested to hear what you think when you have your 'smooth' keyboards. I'm guessing this is done by changing the spring rate. The XK3 springs are all easy to access though I've no idea where to get similar springs with a lower spring rate to try a swap!

Meanwhile I tried to lower the key depth by adding material to the felt strip that the keys hit. I'd like to add 2mm to match the striking distance to the real B3. My first attempt added too much so it resulted in my accidentally triggering adjacent keys too often - I hadn't thought about the relationship between the depth and the fingers clearing the key cleanly - but I'll have another try with less added material. My impression is that there could be an improvement in the 'feel' this way (I think it's probably natural to use the full depth of the keys even though the trigger point is high and velocity is not recognised) but we'll see.

Paul

[clp560]

I had a second try at changing the key depth on the XK3 keyboards - the travel is now reduced by just over 2mm. It doesn't sound much but it makes a noticeable difference. The keys are no lighter, of course, but it encourages a lighter touch. Worth a try for anyone using an XK3 system with their HX3. I didn't change the lower manual as this one is also used to play external stuff like Rhodes etc.. I believe the actually midi trigger point can be changed mechanically but that is a discussion for the XK3 forum!

The new firmware beta is working perfectly which is why my attention changed to the keyboards :-)

Paul

[Mitch Towne]

The XK3 keyboard, in my opinion, feels terrible. It takes much too much effort to hold the keys down. It is nothing like a real Hammond. The Smooth UHL should be a vast improvement. The adjusted Mojo keys are much better than the XK3 and standard Fatar as well.

[clp560]

I look forward to hearing some feedback about the new UHL Smooth keyboard. They only sell directly so it's difficult to get to try one here in Belgium.

[m_g]

Hi Paul,

will get my smooth keyboards installed next week.
I will report back of course.
One of the best-feeling organ keys I played was the
Numa Organ 2, hope the "smooth" feels the same
(but I guess!)
;-)

Cheers
Markus