Weird noise with 3.2 kit

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edwinvp
Site Admin

Weird noise with 3.2 kit

Beitrag von edwinvp »

Hi,

Perhaps anyone knows about the following?
Just assembled a HOAX 3.2 kit. Upon applying power, the C test chord can be heard as described in the manual.

However, the notes sound distorted. Some notes more than others.

Besides, after about a 1 to 2 minutes, the board seems to crash.
When this happen, the yellow LED goes from 'solid on' to random blinking.

Does this happen because I just assembled the kit without loading any organ/leslie license?
Or is something wrong with the kit (or my soldering!)?

Regards,

--
Edwin
Kermit
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Registriert: 21. Jul 2012, 15:16
Wohnort: Denmark
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Re: Weird noise with 3.2 kit

Beitrag von Kermit »

Hi Edwin,

When I assembeled mine I noticed the there was a couple of capacitors that was wrong on the parts top pdf, so I had to compare with the schematis and found the right values. Mine is otherwise working - and I haven´t bought organ/leslie serial yet. I made a board yesterday evening with upper drawbars and switches - and that is also working. So now I´m just waiting for Carsten to get back from holiday, so I can order the licensekeys :D
By the way - have you done the programming, and chosen midi only - or what type you are going to use ?

Best regrads

Claus
happyfreddy
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Registriert: 19. Jul 2012, 09:32
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Re: Weird noise with 3.2 kit

Beitrag von happyfreddy »

Kermit hat geschrieben:Hi Edwin,

When I assembeled mine I noticed the there was a couple of capacitors that was wrong on the parts top pdf, so I had to compare with the schematis and found the right values. Mine is otherwise working - and I haven´t bought organ/leslie serial yet. I made a board yesterday evening with upper drawbars and switches - and that is also working. So now I´m just waiting for Carsten to get back from holiday, so I can order the licensekeys :D
By the way - have you done the programming, and chosen midi only - or what type you are going to use ?

Best regrads

Claus
Hi,
We will check again top pdf and schematics if there are differences in the values of caps.
happyfreddy
ralph
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Registriert: 12. Aug 2012, 13:16
Wohnort: Karlsruhe
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Re: Weird noise with 3.2 kit

Beitrag von ralph »

happyfreddy hat geschrieben:
Kermit hat geschrieben:Hi Edwin,

When I assembeled mine I noticed the there was a couple of capacitors that was wrong on the parts top pdf, so I had to compare with the schematis and found the right values. Mine is otherwise working - and I haven´t bought organ/leslie serial yet. I made a board yesterday evening with upper drawbars and switches - and that is also working. So now I´m just waiting for Carsten to get back from holiday, so I can order the licensekeys :D
By the way - have you done the programming, and chosen midi only - or what type you are going to use ?

Best regrads

Claus
Hi,
We will check again top pdf and schematics if there are differences in the values of caps.
happyfreddy



Hi,

I found two differences regarding capacitors in my 3.2 kit:

Component Diagram: C20 10µ/35V
Kit: 4,7µ/100V
(Reverb Chip U19)

Component Diagram: C89 100µ/16V
Kit: 47µ/50V
(Voltage Regulator U21)


Both do not seem to cause such a problem Edwin described.

@Edwin:
Did you choose the correct power supply and configuration?


regards
Ralph
happyfreddy
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Registriert: 19. Jul 2012, 09:32
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Re: Weird noise with 3.2 kit

Beitrag von happyfreddy »

hi
The two caps won´t make such problems so the values in kit can be used.
I think using correct power supply will help. Using Power supply U 21 on board the jumper JP 12 must be OPEN !! and the reg IC U21 must be
COOLED by heat sink. This is marked in sheet hoax3_2_parts_top
Connect external DC 9 - 12 V 500 mA on plug 27 !
Plug 2 is used as OUTPUT 5 volt from internal 5V Regulator U 21.
Even when You are sure in use exact and stabilisized +5V as power supply You can disable the internal regulator U21 by setting jumper JP12.
I won´t do this and use the internal 5V regulator any time. The 7805 regulator needs 3 volt for correct operating so DC input voltage must be 8 volt minimum. Don´t forget the heat sink ! - metal back plane or so and isolated montage.

Control once again proper soldering and polarity of parts , correct setting of jumpers.
happyfreddy
edwinvp
Site Admin

Re: Weird noise with 3.2 kit

Beitrag von edwinvp »

Hey there and thanks for all replies so far, it now works far better!

And the reason was: me. I (re-)learned an important lesson here:
the impedance of the headphones was way too low for the board's final op-amp stage.
This introduced severe clipping.

Now there's a new problem: playing two or more notes simultaneously still clips, but in an entirely different way.
One note mostly doesn't clip.
Lacking further investigation, I'm thinking that it now clips to the 16-bits digital min/max values?
Perhaps the 'volume' is all up to eleven, because I lack any knobs, additional boards?

I'm hoping to find a MIDI parameter to put the volume down. Since I have no extra drawbars, pots...

@Ralph
I also found out about the capacitors that were 4.4 uF instead of 10u.
But the color scheme also swaps two capacitors around the effects processor.

This way,the PDF instructs you to mount a 100 uF cap instead of the 4.4 or 10u one.
I don't know what this does, but to be sure, I swapped them.
However, this made no immediate audible difference.

At this point I almost pulled my hairs out, but then I figured that the output op-amp might not be strong enough to drive my headphones.
Yep, I was using headphones to listen to the board and simply forget about this...

I did not program the board in any way (afraid of immediately bricking it).
Changed the scan core to MIDI-only though....

BTW: what's also confusing about the schematic: the difference between the diodes. You will have to compare various facts in order to find out.
Also, both 1N4007 and 1N4004 are referenced. One of them is in the kit (though the other might be on the schematic).

Greetings!

--
Edwin
edwinvp
Site Admin

Re: Weird noise with 3.2 kit

Beitrag von edwinvp »

happyfreddy hat geschrieben:hi
I think using correct power supply will help. Using Power supply U 21 on board the jumper JP 12 must be OPEN !! and the reg IC U21 must be
COOLED by heat sink. This is marked in sheet hoax3_2_parts_top
Connect external DC 9 - 12 V 500 mA on plug 27 !
Plug 2 is used as OUTPUT 5 volt from internal 5V Regulator U 21.
This is indeed very important stuff! I use the supply connector next to MIDI-in and the regulator is enabled (so the jumper is not placed).
Turns out the 7805 in my kit is actually a low drop regulator (LDO). I googled it to check if the package leads had the same function (!) before even thinking of applying power to the board. I never destroyed a DIY board/kit and I want to keep things that way ;-)

It now appears to work fine even with very low supply voltages (down to 5.5V !!). But I run it somewhere around 7V.

About the crashing, turns out that is the Leslie function disabling itself after 2 minutes as promised because I have no license yet.

--
Edwin
Gast
Site Admin

Re: Weird noise with 3.2 kit

Beitrag von Gast »

edwinvp hat geschrieben:Hey there and thanks for all replies so far, it now works far better!

Now there's a new problem: playing two or more notes simultaneously still clips, but in an entirely different way.
One note mostly doesn't clip.
Lacking further investigation, I'm thinking that it now clips to the 16-bits digital min/max values?
Perhaps the 'volume' is all up to eleven, because I lack any knobs, additional boards?

I'm hoping to find a MIDI parameter to put the volume down. Since I have no extra drawbars, pots...
MIDI controller CC 7 seems to do the trick for me...
Gast
Site Admin

Re: Weird noise with 3.2 kit

Beitrag von Gast »

Kermit hat geschrieben:Hi Edwin,
So now I´m just waiting for Carsten to get back from holiday, so I can order the licensekeys :D

Claus
Makes me wonder what those undocumented resistors are for... ;-)

Disclaimer: just joking!

--
Edwin
happyfreddy
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Registriert: 19. Jul 2012, 09:32
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Re: Weird noise with 3.2 kit

Beitrag von happyfreddy »

hi
The diodes anyway if 1N4004 ode 1N4007 doesn´t matter, its only for security if changed polarity of DC supply, In conclusion with this fact
the input Voltage must be 8,7Volts DC MINIMUM ( 3 Volts for Regulator 7805 correct operating and 0,7V for 1N4004 or equivalent ).
The output level of the HOAX 3 is LINE OUT signal. If You want to drive a headphone You must first connect a headphone amlifier.
There are two OUTPUT connectors DIRECT or via LESLIE. The leslie channel has a separate volume pot on Plug 9 Pin 11 (Regulator Pin on plug 9 /11 and GND and Vref at the ends same as drawbars). You can measure the Vref direct at the drawbars , it must be +3V3 to GND. Drawbar pots have the value of 2K2 to 10K but use only one value for all, never mixed.
There is no need to change any level via MIDI or so. DON´T TRY ANYTHING WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT YOU´RE DOING !! ( specially RANDOM Changes in try and Error matter , marked in RED in DOC Hoax 3 Syntax !!) The problem You have is a uncorrect connection to Your Amplifier. The output of HOAX is low Impedance so there is any problem with th input impedance of Your Amp. Use a volumepedal as marked and reduce first the Input Level of Your Amp.
happyfreddy
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